Sunday, September 16, 2012

A Sydney Botheration

I am just running things around in my head.

Some tosser in the US makes a video that no-one will ever bother watching. Moslems around the world take great offence as the video makes a mockery of their god.

They kill an American ambassador abroad, they demonstrate around the world and they hold a demonstration in Sydney that turns very ugly and violent. Bit of an over reaction chaps and chappesses. Children holding up signs saying 'Behead those who insult the prophet' is rather distasteful. We don't really do beheading here in Australia.

Last year citizens in Moslem countries were fighting for democracy, but I am not sure what they think democracy is. Our version of it means someone can make a video that parodies or is critical of religion or a god.

All very odd. I don't think I am liking this Moslem religion at all. They seem to be worse than the IRA. In the name of Allah, they have blown up half of Manhattan, the London Tube, the holiday resort of Bali and a posh hotel in Bombay.

Australia, being a country of mostly migrants, has not had religious trouble like this in this century or the last. From all directions in the world, people have come to Australia and mostly it has been a peaceful integration into society, as society itself is reshaped by the immigrants. Given the number of Buddhists in Australia, we are damn lucky they don't get so stroppy. So what is going wrong with the Moslem immigration, mainly from the Middle East, and even Moslems born and bred here? I don't know. You tell me.

It might be best to not take any more Middle Eastern Moslem immigrants. They seem unable to grasp what democracy and Australia is all about. Perhaps we have already taken too many.

Not that I care much. They don't affect me in the inner city latte belt........yet.

But you know the funny thing is that I work with some Middle Eastern Moslems and none of them seem like the ones I describe above.

All very confusing. Perhaps there are two versions of Moslems from the Middle East, good ones and bad ones. Simple then, get rid of the bad ones. There, sorted. Next problem? Oh, some are born here. Most are Australians. We need another plan.


  1. Martin5:16 pm

    The main concern I feel is violence and please note that most Muslims (probably including your workmates) are also generally averse to that (while of course reserving the right to protest about things).

    Apart from the violence the problem with the Sydney protests is that they seem to be protests against free (if irresponsible) speech and very intemperate in language. So that makes them perhaps irresponsible protests. Nevertheless to ban such protests is akin to banning the other irresponsible speech in the form of the video which the protests themselves irresponsibly sought to have banned.

    The solution then may be to punish perpetrators of violence according to the law while permitting all forms of irresponsible speech (e.g. both videos and protests).

    Nevertheless the protests did raise the valid point that it may be appropriate to limit absolute freedom of speech. I would suggest however (to get a little Biblical on you) that the protesters had not noticed the log in their own eyes (calling for beheadings, etc.) while noticing the speck in America's (ridiculing Muhammad).

  2. Colin5:19 pm

    A can of worms!
    1. Send them back to whence they came with the message - "When in Rome (Australia), do as the Romans (Australians)do.
    2. We upset them when visiting their countries by even having a drinky-poo, we are punished.
    Again the "when in Rome" comes to play.
    3. Of course #1 will offend them, they have their rights, but what about #2?
    4. Even people like Fitzgibbon a commentator of the left side, has hit the roof with a great article in todays Sydney Herald Sun.
    5. I can see a heap of Cronulla type incidents again.
    6. They have succeeded in scaring the "living shit" out of me on trains since that terrible day of 9/11.
    7. I know Andrew - contact Green Senator Lee Rhiannon, I am sure she will come up with an answer??
    Don't expect any logic though.
    8. Be alert, Andrew, when partaking of your latte.

    A young girl was reported today in the news somewhere in the Middle East or some Muslim country of having sex with a male. She gets a lashing and a big fine. The male gets off scot free????? I was under the impression it took "two to tango"!!!

    You sure know how to open a can of worms, and thanks for doing so.
    Might make people start to think before it is too late. I think it is already too late, why shut the gate after the horse has bolted??

    Good luck

  3. If no one was ever going to see the video how did all those Muslims around the world even know about it?
    In the first place why make a video that no one is going to see?

  4. The video is on you tube apparently

  5. Martin, I am certainly not saying they ought not to be able to protest, no matter how silly the reason. They have been protesting the world over about very little. We will have our opinions about that. It seems the perpetrators, or instigators of violence will be prosecuted. There does need to be limits on free speech. If I don't agree with what is said, then there should be limits on what they say. Complicated, isn't it. I am sure you aware that I very much dislike those who are overly passionate about the spookiness and weirdness of religion.

    Oh Colin, can't you start your own blog and then I could make a brief comment?

    I generally agree with what you written. Don't be scared about train travel. You give them victory then. As a Green voter and lapsed member, I have huge issues with bleeding heart Sarah Hanson Young. I think she has been given free reign, to keep the party hierarchy away from the matter. Just yesterday I listened to a podcast about how gay men in Iraq now live. Things were much better for them under Sadam Hussein.

    River, as Fen says, it was uploaded to You Tube, but that was six months ago. Why is the matter kicking off now?

  6. Andrew, I'm as appalled as anybody about the violence. But Islam is not the problem.

    As our friend Red Nomad Oz so eloquently puts it, god is an imaginary friend. What would be the point of an imaginary friend if "he" did not do, think or say what we wanted him to?

    There is no religion on earth which has not been used as an excuse for humans to do evil.

    What happened in Martin Place was Cronulla in reverse. A chain of text messages led to a swarm. The worst of the violence was encouraged by about 100 ratbags.

    From time to time people send me politically incorrect jokes which send me into spasms of laughter, but which I mostly keep to myself. Let me share one now:

    The Royal Commission for political sensitivity has now decided the weather in England should be referred to in a manner that will not offend Muslims. The forecast for today is "Partly Sunni, but mostly Shi'ite".

    There are countless different groups in the world who - with no sense of irony - call themselves christian. They peddle hate and violence as much as anyone. Similarly, there are countless different groups in the world who - with no sense of irony - call themselves muslims.

    The bottom line is that religion is a red herring. You are absolutely right - we need to pay far more attention to the ethnic mix of immigrants. Ethnicities come with baggage, and that baggage expresses itself thru the use of god as some sort of trumped up authority.

    There have been peaceful, gentle, wonderful Muslims in this country from the time of white settlement.

    As you rightly observe, some of these extremist ratbags seem to be locally born and bred. Bred from what, I wonder? Some of them do not have a muslim background but are converts, and converts tend to be fanatics. They are disaffected dickheads. I'm not defending them, it is their behaviour that is the problem, not their piss-poor excuses nor the god they claim to represent.

    I also agree with Colin. We have laws in this country and, generally speaking, widely accepted, decent values. If people don't want to fit in they can stay away or go away or, if born here, get locked away.

    As for anti-American sentiments, well, I guess everyone has their own views about that. I'll simply suggest that any nation which appoints itself as god's sherrif - sometimes selectively - is asking for trouble. [As deputy, Australia is also paying a horrible price].

    [Hope I have not hogged too much comment space.]

  7. 'The bottom line is that religion is a red herring. You are absolutely right - we need to pay far more attention to the ethnic mix of immigrants. Ethnicities come with baggage, and that baggage expresses itself thru the use of god as some sort of trumped up authority.'

    Wise words there FC, but didn't Moslems shoot up a train in Broken Hill in the early 1900s? Moslem = trouble.

    While it was somewhat of a dashed off post of mine, I can just imagine what local Frangerites are saying about the whole business. I am not sure that their thoughts are misplaced.

  8. I think FC has said it all for me. Somehow I think it is just an excuse for angry thugs to bash someone. It is horrible to see this on Australian streets though. I agree with you that it is an over reaction and that it is what democracy is all about, to be able to voice any opinion freely.

  9. Ah, the Battle of Broken Hill. Never heard of it til now. In 1915, two men shot at a train and had a shoot out, total toll 4 killed, 6 or 7 wounded, plus two dead crims.

    From my quick search it seems that one of them – Abdullah – was led astray by another, and easily led after years of being treated like shit for being a muslim – i.e. wanting to be a halal butcher, violating the butchers’ union rules etc etc. In other words, he was alienated from mainstream society, and not originally by choice. Certainly, it was a far cry from a jihad.

    None of it was right. I have no argument with that. My main concern with our response to this Martin Place violence is that we should be wary of painting all muslims as criminals. This would be unfair to a great many good people, and it could turn them all into Abdullahs.

    I would be wary of thinking that anything that happened 100 years ago is indicative of what might happen today. We have a constitution that is utterly useless today precisely because it was created in and for a different time, a totally different world that no longer exists.

    100 years ago, white supremacists happily lynched Negroes in the US for the smallest, imagined slight. Crikey, they were doing it in the 1960s.
    Wikipedia has a list of [white] Australian massacres of Aboriginals – the latest on the list being the Coniston massacre in 1928.
    In the 1960s British soldiers were still killing Irish people. Irish people were blowing up innocent Poms. Catholics and Protestants were killing each other.
    In the 1940s the Nazis went on one of history’s greatest and most disgusting murder sprees, picking out this and that group to eliminate. Amongst their victims, as you know – Commos, Jews, Poofs, Gypsies, and anyone deemed physically or mentally “defective”.

  10. I am not proud of what has been done in the past in this country, nor in my home countries of Ireland or England or Scotland or Wales… but my single greatest fear for Australia today is that some of the immigrants we are accepting are people whose ethnicity is inseparable from centuries old hatreds. This crap they carry and act on in the name of Islam, but they might as well blame the man in the moon for all the truth to their claim.

    What we were yesterday we are not today. We Australians are who we are today because we have looked forward rather than backward, truly “being the change we wanted to see in the world”.

    Forty years ago [plus or minus a few hundred], poofter bashing was a sport. Men were being killed. I distinctly remember shitting myself a couple of times and I’m just a girl.
    Women and boys and girls and yes, some men, are on the receiving end of violence and perversion all the time – it’s just not so public and it’s not solely religious [don’t get me started on the Catholic church]. Christians who blow up abortion clinics disgust me. As you recently reminded me elsewhere, even today gay youth are 14 times more likely to commit suicide. I’m not convinced this is because Muslims are dangerous and others aren’t.

    Sadly, what I suspect you think many Frangerites are thinking is probably true. But the only people I fear on trains are Frangerites. White, stupid, drunken, drug addled, brainless, dysfunctional ferals. Thugs who use their own “victim” thinking to excuse appalling behaviour.

    This is the same victim thinking which has, quite tragically, made Ned Kelly a hero. Yes, he was initially mistreated and saw this as anti-Irish behaviour by British arseholes, but instead of using success as revenge he decided to go on a rampage and confirm that he was, indeed a loser. What we saw in Martin Place was the same mentality, only the self-appointed ‘victims’ were wearing white dresses and doilies instead of home made armour.

    The Martin Place Muslim Mob disgust me. They choose to set themselves apart, and I will not be a party to it. Nor will I be set apart by them. **** them.
    As you say, if you become a victim of fear, they win. I shall be careful and wary because life demands it, but I cannot live if I jump at shadows.

    Democracy is built on the premise that individuals must accept rewards or punishments based on their own, individual actions. Every day our judiciary sentence people individually, even if they have acted as part of a gang, or group, or mob. Every case on its own merit.
    I like that.

  11. Having hogged so much space already, I may as well add one more quickie:

    When I say someone converts to Islam this is a generic statement much like saying someone bought a car. There is no indication of what brand of car, its quality, or how it will perform.

    The same thing applies to both Islam and Christianity and even Judaism.

    Cars do not kill people - drivers do.

  12. I've been having prejudice thoughts too. I'm trying not to. I'm trying to remember that not all Muslims are like this.

    I might be more annoyed by those who blame the filmmaker for the violence more than they blame the protesters.

    I really like Waleed Aly's editorial about the whole thing.

    I think I probably agree with everything he says.

  13. A great article Dina. Thanks for the link.

  14. I think the violent Muslims are very much a minority rather like the violent Jews or the violent Americans. It's imperative to remember that what we see in the media is far from truth. People are people. Some are bad and some are good and most are somewhere in between.

  15. As the most deleted commentor in the history of blogging I have to be careful in saying I find some of these comments enormously funny, and by the way, those two Turks attacked the train because Australia was at war with Turkey. No other reason.

  16. Martin may want to change his name after such disgraceful goings-on in Martin Place. I guess someone has to cop it but it sure wouldn't have happened in Robert Place.

    Peace, man.

  17. I am with River. Why make a vicious video if noone is going to see it?
    Will there be any consequences for the makers of the film?
    Of all the rioters in all the countires, who has seen it?

  18. Diane, it was certainly a zero score in the area of good publicity.

    FC, now having had a good holiday in a Moslem country, Malaysia, clearly Islam is not the problem. It was clear to me that Malaysian Moslems were not at all keen on Middle Eastern Moslems, but they tolerate them because of the money they bring in.

    Dina, Waleed is eminently sensible, but he is preaching to the open minded and converted. Logic and sense don't work very well on the irrational.

    Quite true, of course Rubye. But it is about impressions and those who acted up could not have done a worse thing to create bad images in people's heads.

    RH, I should have refreshed my memory before mentioning that. Nice attempt to lighten things up.

    Hels, I think the motive was clear, to agitate Moslems to protest and look bad. It worked very well. I think Moslems played right into the hand of whoever made the video. Apparently now millions have seen the video on You Tube. How many would have bothered or known about it if Moslems ignored it.

  19. The only way to survive religion is to have a sense of humour! It's all a big joke..until people die, then it's just all insanity!

  20. Grace, the evils that are done in the name of religion.